Liquid dpm for concrete floor. Hello, hoping someone can help. Liquid dpm for concrete floor

 
 Hello, hoping someone can helpLiquid dpm for concrete floor  A few floors had a DPM formed in 20mm

00 Ex VAT. Larsen DPM Universal is a superior 2 pack epoxy surface applied liquid damp proof membrane that enables laying of flooring even where moisture levels are at their highest up to 98% RH. Place the damp proofing membrane on the wall. 0. Like x 1; List; merit Well-Known Member. The affected rooms are a small kitchen and lounge. PermaSEAL Damp Proof Paint 5L. Traditional screeds. 3 - 12 % CM for magnesia flooring (proportion of organic parts). Grinding the old bitumen from the concrete floor. I'm looking for opinions on the best self leveling screed to use on my slightly wonky concrete garage floor. To use an MVS, there must be a fully functioning structural DPM in. Hold the up the low end of the level until the bubble is in the middle, then measure the gap between the floor and the raised end of the level. Check the condition of the concrete floor slab for imperfections. Allows immediate installation of moisture sensitive floor finishes onto damp concrete and screed. water will be likely to collect between the DPM and the old floor. Hi, We've just finished pulling up old quarry tiles ready to fit new Porcelain tiles throughout! Had to remove quarry's due to levels of external doors, were unsure what the subfloor is beneath the quarry's, I believe the property is prone to rising damp seeping through subfloor as no DPM. I've moved into an old stone cottage and am looking to get wood flooring in the living room. Rising damp in concrete flooring is a significant issue. 15 m2 1. Wood and Beyond propose the use of vapor barrier with all. :thumbsup. In about 6 hours, it may be completely hardened and ready for use, depending on the flooring material being installed on top. £300. 11 Aug 2022. The only way to tell properly, is to carry out a proper test. Like 2. Then SL, this will take care of the craters and uneven sections from remaining tile adhesive. Coverage. 5 % Tramex). Doesn't cover the transition from the concrete floor to the wood floor; Hugely expensive and money I don't have. Once applied, the product cures to form a membrane that is flexible and elastic. Quarry tiles are installed on the solid concrete slab which is a good. Apply the first coat in one direction, ensuring that the material is worked well into the substrate. One solution is to dig up the floor and replace the existing damp proof membrane with a new plastic membrane then relay the concrete slab. Floors: Under/above screeds to provide a damp proof membrane. Our epoxy DPM has good chemical resistance to mild. co. Our Epoxy Damp Proof Membrane is a two-component, solvent free, low odour epoxy resin membrane that is tolerant of residual moisture in concrete floors. Id be tempted to run a dpm across the floor and up behind the skirting. A DPM coating is your best option for existing floors that are experiencing dampness, as it doesn't require removing any concrete slabs. Still have moisture coming through (I think), and after further reading, 50mm of concrete is required to 'hold it down' and stop penetration. 24-month shelf life. Jan 20, 2016. The DPM should: have sealed laps of at least 300mm wide. It provides a dry barrier against moisture and can be painted over with resin-based coatings or overlaid with other floor coverings. Can be over painted after 16 hours with most types of floor coatings. The type of coating is chosen, depending on the usage of the floor. Apply around the edge of the room using a paintbrush, and then use a pre-wetted short. (3 Reviews) £22. High performance, over-banding sealing tape system for postsealing and waterproofing of construction. Prepare substrate. Arditex na has a low compression strength not suitable for wood or tile, the bitumen adhesive should always be removed mechanically then a rh% test carried out. Withstands 98% RH. 4M X 20M 1000G Clear Heavy Duty Polythene Plastic Building Dust Rubble Sheet DIY. 100% solids, high build coating. Yes, concrete is often exposed to the elements, which can cause it to crack. After the final application of EP40. Drybase Liquid-Applied Damp-Proof Membranes The Drybase range of liquid-applied coatings including Drybase ECS Epoxy Floor Coatings and Drybase Liquid-Applied DPM can be applied directly to damp floors to. Brian McNaughton & Son Ltd. Description. The damp proof paint is now ready to be. #1. Would a liquid dpm work,in past I had similar problem, I've just poured some liquid dpm in to the hole & help it with a trowel to find it's way under the concrete,seem to work as I never had damp issue when I moved indoor stop cock to new position at previous place & here when I laid new pipe under utilty floor after clay pipe failed, 10 years on, not. Withstands 98% RH. £2,000. Looking for best method to both level and damp proof the concrete, to then be covered with a thin layer of celotex, then engineered wood or. Tax: £18. concrete slab base DIYnot Forums. Ground bearing concrete floors - 1960s to 1990s. We are proud to have over 20 years experience of. Our epoxy DPM products create a new damp proof membrane in a highly. In order to make sure the. In particular, this can include permanently damp concrete floors or where the DPM (Damp Proof Membrane) is. I would advise a single part flexi tile adhesive on top which will enable you to have stone, ceramic or porcelain tiles fixed. 41. My plan so far was: - fix up any cracks and dodgy bits in the current concrete floor. 186. Drybase® Liquid-Applied DPM is a single-pack barrier coating for above ground use. Damp proof membrane (DPM) taped at the edges and anywhere it is joined. Description Sika Rapid DPM (Damp Proof Membrane) is a solvent free reaction curing resin for use on cement based substrates. A few months have passed since then and is now on average 2. It is important that concrete and sand/cement screed surfaces are mechanically prepared to produce a clean, sound and dust-free before the application of a WSM. Hardcores varied in quality - many have since proved to be totally unsuitable. We have a concrete floor with 70mm insulation board over which the builder will be pouring 70-80mm screed. then a liquid dpm will need to be used as well as a 3mm thick latex layer as most adesives wont bond properly to the dpm. Plenty of cement/latex/fibre based. 4M X 5M 500G Clear Heavy Duty Polythene Plastic Building Dust Rubble Sheet DIY. Sika Code 175129. Note that two coats are generally. How to install a liquid damp proof membrane you when to use a damp proof membrane wood and beyond blog how to lay a liquid based damp proof membrane you what is a dpm and why do i need one polycote. Acts as a bonding agent for plaster and curing agent for concrete. 1 Feb 2010. weberfloor DPM is an effective moisture suppressant membrane for over sealing cementitious surfaces which contain high levels of residual construction moisture and. Shave 25mm off the concrete slab in the middle of the room. This can include timber floors, tiles, laminate flooring and carpet. Virtually solvent free liquid epoxy resin damp-proofer. In this video I apply a damp proof membrane / tanking slurry to a concrete floor to stop moisture coming in to the building where we have issues with mould a. Preparing the Oversite u2013 The Extension that 10k Built . Although he says in normal circumstances we would need to wait 1 week for each mm to allow the screed to dry, we can get round this by using a liquid DPM - he says in that case the tiles and engineered wood for the separate rooms. e. Acts as a bonding agent for plaster and curing agent for concrete. • 1 or 2 coat application. The DPM membranes are available in 4M x 25M rolls as well as a handy pack ideal for smaller jobs. IN CONCRETE SUBFLOORS British Standards 8201:2011 recom-mends using relative humidity (RH) testing of concrete sub floors. I removed the old carpet and realised there was damp patches on the tiled floor below, im believe there is no dpm membrane and quarry tiles were laid over lime morter bed, my contractors PVA'ed self levelled over the floor to try and stop it but the self. Walls appear to be dry & are mainly concrete block. £36. 3 - 12 % CM for magnesia flooring (proportion of organic parts). On average, the cost of screed flooring will be around the £250 mark, depending on various factors. 2. Tanking and waterproof render up to a metre high will help, alternatively, do what they did 100 years ago. . If in doubt check the moisture content of the concrete. It can also be used as an adhesive for the likes of wood block flooring and insulation boards, or as a plaster bonding agent – even on difficult surfaces. An MVS, is a moisture vapour suppressant that is used on floors, usually concrete or cement-based screeds with up to 95% RH. Liquid damp proof membrane (water based bitumen) applied in several coats directly to the concrete floor with a roller or brush. Internal or external applied waterstops based on PVC, TPO or galvanised steel for construction and movement joints. The installation of a liquid damp proof membrane can be a vital step in the building process, for both refurbishment work and for new builds where a structural damp proof membrane may be. Dri-Wall DPC Injection Cream. Liquid Screeding. DAMP BARRIER PAINT - A highly advanced styrene-butadiene rubber (SBR), liquid applied membrane paint. You should use them to protect all final floor finishes. It seems like a self levelling floor compound is the best way to go. Self levelling compound. Remove all traces of the lino and glue and paint on a liquid dpm such as Sika or everbuild blackjack, then once dry latex the floor to try to feather the majority of dips and bumps out, then consider either a moisture resistant laminate with decent. Walls: Can be used under render or plaster as a water barrier or. How to install a liquid damp proof membrane. Liquid dpm would do a job if you have a good clean floor and no existing damp issues. rifraf74. Basements: As part of a waterproofing system beneath ground level. 19. 11 Aug 2022. Do you have any damp problems currently?. Ground bearing concrete floors - 1960s to 1990s. 00 Inc VAT. Step-by-step guide for how to apply liquid DPM for concrete floors. 2. Jord86 Screwfix Select. I'm hesitant to lay self levelling. Fitting floor insulation tends to be far more straightforward when starting from scratch in a new build or extension. Add to basket. The problem is by the time we insulate, screed and lay the flooring we will be above the dpc& membrane level by 4 inches. The booklet covers topics such as joint isolation, thin set tile, termination, and utility finish. Sika Waterproofing Overlap Details SWOD - CAD Booklet is a PDF document that provides detailed drawings and specifications for various waterproofing solutions by Sika, a global leader in construction products and systems. 00 Inc VAT. 24-month shelf life. I wanted to self-level the floor using mapai ultimate leveller 1210 and Secrete Ulitmate Primer for adhesion. If you need some advice on what DPM your floor project will require you can speak to one of our flooring experts using the live chat (when available) or call us on 0333 533 3330 during normal office hours. I 've dug down and put 100mm of concrete down will liquid dpm to meet up with the existing dpm and 50mm screed ontop easy. Add to basket. For solid wood the absolute maximum moisture level in concrete is 4%, ideally it should be nearer to 3% - your flooring manufacturer should have issued Tech Info sheets which cover their requirements in detail. and then apply a second coat with kiln. Made from a combination of sand, cement and water, usually in a sand/cement mix ratio of anywhere between 3:1 and 5:1. There are 2 adjoining concrete floors, one with a visible DPM underneath that ranges from 70mm-3omm and one that is relatively 'modern' and. Blue 1. One solution is to dig up the floor and replace the existing damp proof membrane with a new plastic membrane then relay the concrete slab. Best Acrylic Sealer: Foundation Armor Concrete Sealer. It is available in black or white with a consistency similar to that of thick emulsion paint. I'm looking to tile the floor, which currently has parquet on it, bonded to the concrete with a bitumen adhesive. Old coal cellar, half is decent concrete but the other half has a bitumen type coating already. Quarry tiles are installed on the solid concrete slab which is a good. I was only wondering about the waterproof PVA really. It comes in black or white and has a consistency similar to thick emulsion paint. In subfloors with readings in excess of 75% relative humidity (RH), the use of surface membranes will suppress residual moisture, which can dramatically shorten project schedules. Liquid epoxy DPM is often used as a remedial solution for existing concrete floors, as it creates an impermeable layer that keeps water in the concrete slab. - lay a liquid dpm. and then apply a second coat with kiln. In certain situations, i. Let’s take a look at how these membranes function. Primer to the surface and allow to cure. John Lewis are correct in being very very cautious re: damp, it is critical that the prep is spot on and damp levels sorted before any attempt is made to lay the Amtico. It stops around 10mm away from the internal walls in all rooms. 2 Feb 2011. The bitumen adhesive also contained the same asbestos fibres. Now cut a small square of plastic around 100mm x 100mm and, using plastic tape, tape it to the floor area on all. Damp Proofing Concrete Floors With Liquid Membranes. How to apply Damp Proof Paint. • Protects walls and floors from water ingress and dampness. We have had a full structural survey done which highlighted damp at the ground floor level. 7 days or sealed. The old floor tiles do contain a small amount of asbestos ( Marley tiles etc. A vapour barrier, on the other hand, is a damp proofing product attached to a wood floor underlay to reduce moisture passage. UK Requirements for DPM Thickness. Manufacturers will be able to advise. Option 3 – Apply a liquid DPM. Drybase 2mm Plaster Membrane Mesh (2m x 20m) - Low-Profile Plaster Membrane For Use on Damp Walls. 6. Time is saved on floor preparation as the need to re-screed the floor or use a liquid DPM, the mixing of epoxies and adhesives have been removed and you don’t need to wait for. ARDEX DPM 1 C. attack but is designed to be over-coated with other resin finishes. The floor is old concrete and dips ~25mm in the middle. DPM Membranes for Concrete Floors ; Damp Proof Course; Damp Proof Paint;. water leak from the toilet in to the floor. It is also suitable for waterproofing foundation walls, ducts, lintels, columns, beams and similar structures at, above and below ground level. Test Area Because of the wide variety of possible substrates and site conditions, it is always advisable to check adhesion to the background by testing on a sample area before starting any job. Liquid DPM and waterproofing paint to waterproof and damp proof your property. Cement screed is the most commonly installed type of screed and averages around £12 per sqm. Don't use a mix of manufacturers products because if you asked for a site visit due a failure, they'd automatically walk away. 1200 Gauge DPMs should be used when a floor is direct to the ground. The biggest advantage of using a liquid Damp Proof course, is that you do not have to rip up concrete floors. DPMs come in solid or liquid form, the latter being a practicable solution for a garage conversion. Once dry, Arditex NA, a latex based self levelling compound, was applied. And yes you can level the floor after. Plenty of cement/latex/fibre. A: A damp proof membrane (DPM) is a thick plastic sheet used as a waterproof barrier between a concrete subfloor and wood floor. Virtually solvent free liquid epoxy resin damp-proofer. High performance, over-banding sealing tape system for postsealing and waterproofing of construction. DPM Floor Membrane above Concrete Drybase Liquid-Applied DPM (1 L White) (In stock) ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆. Its wrong. I know that involves removing the skirting, butbthen you can chip off a strip of plaster if it goes down to the concrete floor. - finish with a self levelling compound. Don't know the repercussions of cutting into the. DIYDave. It is supplied ready to use. £100 - £600. Polymer based liquid DPM to resist the penetration of gases (including radon), vapours and liquids. If the problem is moisture, lift the vinyl and allow the concrete to dry properly. Pretty simple fix; Cons. The only way to tell properly, is to carry out a proper test. The DPM we use does not cancel all moisture out as this will end up. Anhydrite screed usually costs in the range of £15 – £20 per sqm, mastic. 4M X 20M 1000G Clear Heavy Duty Polythene Plastic Building Dust Rubble Sheet DIY. Checking your Garage Floor for Damp. . Standard sand & cement screed, dries at approx 1mm per day, depending on variables. When we stick any floor down to the sub floor, solid or engineered, we insist on installing a liquid DPM unless the existing is guaranteed to be 100% in tact. Floors can also be susceptible to moisture ingress, especially concrete floors. When mixed thickly it can be used vertically for surfaces such as cellar walls and storage tanks. Bostik Screedmaster Rapid DPM is a ready for use; one part, water-based damp proof membrane. Liquid DPM 5L Rating: 100%. MR HARRY Member. You’ll want to make sure that you over-roll. If you need some advice on what DPM your floor project will require you can speak to one of our flooring experts using the live chat (when available) or call us on 0333 533 3330 during normal office hours. They are durable and puncture resistant, being able to cope with site traffic. The principle of tanking is to provide a continuous waterproof barrier or membrane; this is created using either mastic asphalt or proprietary adhesive DPM. I wanted to self-level the floor using mapai ultimate leveller 1210 and Secrete Ulitmate Primer for adhesion. Synthaprufe Original exhibits low odour, with exceptional flexibility and crack resistance, even at low. If a DPM is necessary, we recommend applying two coats before the application of Luvanto adhesive. Not much really if you don't want to undertake any building work. A damp-proof membrane is a layer of material usually laid below concrete floors during construction. £. Liquid DPMs gave the best protection but were more expensive. RonaScreed DPM is also suitable for use prior to the application of tiles, soft flooring or wood. A small risk of them blowing if moisture is excessive though. 6 m2 1. Side extension refurb: old concrete slab is uneven with a line of about 10mm difference in heights down middle, and dpm under screed is visibly not 100%, with a few gaps. First scrape up as much of the residue as possible apply a cote of Ardex. I am buying a property and a survey has shown that the solid ground floor (likely concrete slab) is damp in some parts and is also uneven. 40 inc. My ground floor is a partial basement formed of high density block work with the cavity filled with waterproof concrete to mid height and liquid DPM below ground level. 100% solids, high build coating. Last edited: Sep 2, 2010. 2. If. But too much water will extend the drying time and. 00 € 60. - I'm wondering why the DPM is needed. Damp proof membrane paint is a liquid DPM that blocks the action of penetrating damp on floors, ceilings, and internal walls. the wooden floor is laid. The subfloor is a solid slab that is mostly level (although in parts, just earth). £30. Use on concrete floors as an alternative to polythene. £51. Liquid Epoxy Damp Proof Membrane 5kg (Metal Tin) Rating: 100%. . I need to put down a damp proof membrane and self levelling compound on top of that. Best to use the dpm as the soil will draw some of the water from the concrete which can cause it to crack . All surfaces must be mechanically sound, dry and clean, i. Liquid DPM to reduces the potential mois-ture related problems. However there is a dpc cavity tray. Laying a DPM over the floor slab (not sure on the integrity of the one below the slab so just in case. I am assuming its asphalt with a bitumen top layer, 10-15mm thick. Maximum bond can be achieved by vigorously brushing the primer coat into the floor substrate using a stiff bristled broom. 00 Excl. RonaScreed DPM is a liquid applied surface damp proof membrane designed to reduce the passage of water vapour and allow the adhesion of thin bonded and fast drying screeds to concrete which is either not fully dry or does not have a functioning DPM. I intend to follow the liquid DPM/self-levelling 'stickys' on the Flooring thread, but wondering what to do with the section of wall below the DPC. Category: Floor Treatment Tags: Damp Proof Membrane, Damp Proofing. Hi, I have painted a bitumen based liquid DPM (not the 2 part epoxy types that most other posts are about) on my damp concrete floor (1950s bungalow with no DPM and on a hill with possibly high water table). not a good idea man. Epoxy Damp Proof Membrane Epoxy damp proof membrane is a coating that suppresses residual moisture in cement and concrete floors to speed up the process of installing floor coverings. Wait until the first coat of liquid DPM is touch-dry - approximately 15 to 30 minutes at 20°C – before applying the second coat at right angles to the. Liquid DPMs gave the best protection but were more expensive. looking at using liquid dpm, and trying to work out what coverage one would get from a concrete base, looking on the i found this info below "DryBase Liquid-Applied DPM (previously known as DryBase Vapour Membrane) Package Content: ■1 X 5 litre container if Dry Base Coverage: Each 5 litre pack will cover up to. 30 Jan 2022. 98/3454), high performance, brush applied damp proofing emulsion containing synthetic rubber latex which provides a seamless waterproof and vapour resistant, black elastomeric membrane. If the DPM Primer is being used. Clear. You also mentioned that there are vinyl tiles over the floor. Then 2 coats SBR 1-4 diluted. These black floor DPMs are designed for use in concrete slabs to protect against moisture. The specific liquid DPM system will depend on the type of substrate or screed. advise that you apply one coat of DPM. Protects the floorcovering from residual construction moisture and ground water vapour. For a self-levelling screed a system such as Flowcrete UK’s Hydraseal would be used. e. Tried and tested and it works. Accommodates Hygrometer readings up to 98% RH. Insulation sheets and steel laid on top of plastic membrane. The installation of liquid damp proof membranes is a vital stage in the building process, for both new builds and refurbishment work where a structural DPM may be missing or. Step-by-step guide for how to apply liquid DPM for concrete floors. Firstly, there was no need to use a liquid dpm if you used underlay with a built in vapour barrier. 00. New concrete subfloors or sand/cement screeds should be left for a minimum of seven. For external tiled areas, we would always advice on the use of a capillary passive drainage system like BAL’s new external tiling systems which ensure the rapid drainage of tiled surfaces. Once the floor is even it should be completely cleaned. All surfaces must be mechanically sound, dry and clean, i. Tile brands such as Bal, Ardex, Tops, etc all sell tile primers with fancy names ! Can simply use SBR diluted, follow instructions on bottle, likely to be 1-4 water, then apply 2 coats. R. It is also suitable for application on damp surfaces, such as sand/cement and cement floors subject to rising damp or containing residual construction moisture. Curing concrete is a process that should be gradual in order to avoid cracks. I'm fairly certain the bathroom was actually an outhouse or a brick shed and the main house was extended to join up with it. DPM Membranes for Concrete Floors ; Damp Proof Course; Damp Proof Paint; Rising Damp Treatment; Water Repellents; Vapour Control Layers; Internal Waterproofing;. Flooring FAQs. Drybase White Liquid Damp Proof Membrane - 1L Drybase® Liquid applied DPM is a single pack barrier coating for above ground use. Laminate uses underlayment which can cause same thing. Once the DPM is applied you need a laytex screed, so your adhesive and karndean stick to it. DPM is also suit-able as an adhesive for wood block and mosaic panels, insulation boards, expanded polystyrene, cork and as a plaster bonding agent, even on difficult surfaces. A damp proof membrane will commonly be laid during the construction of a concrete floor in a new build to protect the floor from rising damp. It might seem a bit unusual. I would suggest also laying a new underlay which has a vapour barrier. Assuming that the damp proof membrane (dpm) under the concrete has failed in areas then yes you possibly would get the odd patch of dampness showing in the floor. Prepare substrate. or self level to adhere to. Primer to the surface and allow to cure. T ·Öí 4. Preparation is key with these coatings and the substrate must be sufficiently clean and dry. I am looking for some advise about laying a SLC with a liquid DPM. The report says there is no DPM. underneath a screed or self level we. Insulation with be internal PIR. Suitable for heavy wear areas, concrete floors where a DPM has failed or was never installed, or areas of damp concrete which cannot be surface dried prior to painting. Ready for your floor finish. I spoke to Everbuild/Sika and they were able to recommend a DPM paint and compound that would bond together, by priming the final layer of dpm. Ideal for general waterproofing and fixing. 2 coats SBR. Protects the floorcovering from residual construction moisture and ground water vapour. Home. From below, installing insulation to improve the floor or as part of a basement insulation project is fairly straightforward. Now the floor is flat the DPM can be applied to seal the concrete. Then lay a self leveller on top of this before tiling over that. Neatly fold the damp proofing membrane around the corners. e. CONCRETE FLOOR 8 9 Our refurbishment system is ideal for older properties with damp or contaminated floors. 00 Ex VAT. Preparation is the main thing for the layers, and the substrate should be dry and clean. so what liquid dpm should i use. 15 m2 1. Stack Exchange Network. Suitable for extensions, basements and cellars. 5m) It will have 50mm insulation boards on top of it, followed by 18mm/22mm. Sika Rapid DPM is intended for priming and sealing absorbent and non-absorbent subfloors, Also suitable for. 5 Litre Containers, in Black colour only. If you would like to know more about the range of damp proofing and other products we have available you can contact us on 01329 235252 or via e-mail [email protected] DPM for walls & floors. Ideal for floors with damp or rising damp problems. Water is added to ensure a thorough mix and to aid workability. Adheres to saturated concrete even at lower temperatures. • Protects walls and floors from water ingress and dampness. A DPM coating is your best option for existing floors that are experiencing dampness, as it doesn't require removing any concrete slabs. Tile brands such as Bal, Ardex, Tops, etc all sell tile primers with fancy names ! Can simply use SBR diluted, follow instructions on bottle, likely to be 1-4 water, then apply 2 coats. Test Area Because of the wide variety of possible substrates and site conditions, it is always advisable to check adhesion to the background by testing on a sample area before starting any job. Damp proof membrane DPM – Designing Buildings. Technoseal Floor DPM. The damp proof paint is now ready to. When a plastic DPM is missing or not practical, this product can be used as a liquid DPM for concrete floors to protect against residual moisture and rising damp. coating to create a key for the screed. Screed above dpm. marginally exceeds 70%, a liquid damp proof membrane (DPM) is required. Concrete dries at a certain pace so it can perform at its best over the longest time possible, a liquid DPM can help you speed up things but not already after two weeks! Perhaps in the last two weeks of the normal drying time. I see the advice is: *Primer *Acrylic Self Levelling Compound *Liquid DPM *Self Levelling Compound of choice However, I can't seem to find any acrylic based self levelling compounds. We have two system recommendations for new build installations. The black "rubbery stuff" could well be a layer of bitumen which was used as a form of DPM in houses from around (AFAIK) WWI period or a little earlier up until the 1970s in some areas. The vinyl being laid before the concrete has dried out.